Marc Guggenheim: Show Runner, Writer, Producer
Legends of Tomorrow series created by Marc Guggenheim
JAY
What are some of your thoughts on screenwriting?
MARC
It's a bit like learning music. You don't rigidly adhere to music theory. If it sounds good, it sounds good! The majority of the audience has never been to music school, they are there to enjoy the experience. The same is with screenwriting. They're not going to know if you are "breaking the rules" or not, What they'll know is if they're emotionally engaged.
I think there's something beautiful about a perfectly constructed screenplay but unless there's a soul behind it, the only people who are going to appreciate are ones who examine it for a living, The audience will not be going, "Wow! The second act was really phenomenal!" They're not watching things that way.
Percy Jackson: Sea of Monsters movie written by Marc Guggenheim
JAY
So, tell us a little about your background.
MARC
Short version, I went to university in Albany, New York. Then, I graduated and went to Boston University to law school. I graduated from law school and I stayed in Boston, practised law, And then after some years, I thought, "Enough of this law stuff." I quit my job and I knew I wanted to work in television. I moved to L.A, and applied during the staffing season period, got incredibly lucky and, that's the short version.
JAY
But were you writing before you moved to L.A?
MARC
Yeah, I had been writing on the side, and it took me a while to "crack the code"; figuring it out. I would go to script examples and learn from about things in them. Where the luck part came in was the show I got hired on was David E. Kelley's The Practice . He was looking to hire first year writers who used to be lawyers. By the way, The Practice takes place in Boston, where I used to practise, you know, that's where the planets aligned.
Series Arrow created by Marc Guggenheim
JAY
As a film producer, when you watch things, do you find yourself being analytical?
MARC
Oh, all the time. I'm a super easy audience member, I'll give the writer and director all the benefits of the doubt - I come in wanting to like something, so as a result, I tend to like a lot of things, others don't. But, yeah, I'll notice little things, like "oh, that line was looped", or "that visual effect wasn't good" - my criticisms tend to be very granular, as opposed to "what the hell were they thinking?"
JAY
How do you handle feedback from executives after giving a pitch? Especially, if they might say, "I like this, but how about doing it this way?"
MARC
You know, I often say to the staff that I manage, "Always take the note, never take the salt. " That's a little dogmatic, but the truth is, I would take a good idea from anyone. When someone says, "that's a bad pitch" - I usually see more on what the feedback is saying, not how they are saying it. What's the note behind the note, in a way. If I can get to that, then I can have a shot of making my pitch better.
The process of receiving notes is supposed to help make the script better. I say "supposed to" because that's what I think it should do. Others may have a different approach, though.
The Flash series - one of projects Marc Guggenheim has been an executive producer of.
JAY
In some of your shows, where you build out the world of the series, what is your experience in building a "brand new world"?
JAY
A lot of the creative process deals with collaboration with executives and producers, but how much do you have ready during those stages for them to see?
MARC
The way I like to do things, prior to COVID19, I likened it to traveling. I like to have my "itinerary"; I like to have a plan; have things laid out and ready to go. At the same time, going back to the travel analogy, if I hear about this amazing day trip or this wonderful restaurant, I like the possibility to be able to go. You have to free yourself up to get a good idea from someone else. You are reacting, also, to what actors are giving you. You have to be flexible.
I think a lot of people make a mistake of having a rigid point of view. I think having a vision is more complicated than that. You know what the painting is supposed to generally look like, but you're flexible about the brush strokes. I'll always take a good idea from anybody. It can come from anybody. I don't care if it comes from the 2nd Assistant Director. If it's a good idea, it's a good idea.
Marc Guggenheim's story series Troll Hunters for Netflix.
JAY
Have there been any challenges along the way?
MARC
Even though I've been in this business for 30 years, I still learn things, and one of them is if you can remove your ego from the process, you can still do good work.
It's a tough business, it's not the kind of business where a lot is in your control.
There was a project I was working on and during preparation time, we were dead in the water. We found out that someone in the top decision making team learnt of it, and had some very significant issues - we sensed we were finished. We were working on this preparation for a year, it was a long development process. To run into this wall was hard. It was a very dark moment. To be honest, I don't know if I necessarily handled it well,
We received the feedback notes about the pilot, and I could have replied that even though we worked on it for a year, it's really down to them to choose it, or not. But, I stuck to my guns, and defended it. I said to them, "If I provide you "x" concept, but did it in a "y" fashion, how would you feel?" - and they were happy. That's basically how it proceeded and we got it green-lit. It was a very happy ending.
Amazon's Carnival Row series - in which Marc is an executive producer and writer of.
JAY
This displays collaboration as an essential part of the creative process. Is this something you consciously picked up on because of some good experiences, or surviving some that were dubious?
MARC
Both. In the sense that, I worked for some great show runners, like Greg Berlanti, and I've worked with some horrible, abusive show runners, whom I won't name. You learn as much from the bad ones as you do from the good ones. You learn what not to do. You also learn from your own experience. I'll give you an example.
The year we were developing the pilot for series Arrow, we were also developing a pilot for a legal drama, and that was a nightmare. I wrote this script that was quite verbose for its dialogue, and the network made me cast this good actor, but it was a completely wrong casting. It was like, I have written a piano piece and you made me hire a drummer. And, I literally spent the first day of filming cutting a lot out of the script because he couldn't get through the first half of the dialogue. But after a few days, in New York, where we were filming, I remember vividly thinking, "Why am I here? I don't even want to be here!" It was really like a nightmare. And I realised, by that point, the environment that the director and I created, was so pleasant, ironically, that everyone wanted to be there. Even though I was dying inside, everyone was so grateful coming to work. That observation made this whole experience better for me. From that, I realised that, when I created a good environment, it not only made others happy, it made me happy. That was a real learning experience.
If you're the show runner, everything is your responsibility and your fault. The buck has to stop with you.
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