David Kissinger (middle) with fellow producers, Peter Jankowski (left) and Dick Wolf (right).
The following is a snippet from an interview relating to my academic research.
Q: Give us a little background to yourself.
DAVID
Well, I guess, to use a term, I was a "nerd". I watched a great deal of television. You know, I grew up in the 60s and that moment, the popular culture was incredibly innovative and incredibly cheesy. I loved shows like The Beverley Hillbillies and Gilligan's Island but I also was lucky enough to have the Saturday night experience (shows such as) All in the Family and the Mary Tyler Moore Show, The Carol Burnett Show, The Bob Newhart Show, those shows just formed my taste and I was a lover of comedy from a very early age. So, I think that's what sort've led me to getting into this business.
Q: Early TV jobs?
DAVID
Well, I will say, I had a very unconventional path into being a TV executive. I, actually, was a lawyer, then I chucked all of that to be a journalist. I was writing for The Rolling Stone, and then for Variety I was a TV reporter, and I got amazing access to all the top executives and I was lucky enough to get an offer from Disney to be the comedy executive when they were ramping up in the early 90s. They were trying to cash in on the sitcom boom that was happening that time. That was right around the time Seinfeld was exploding and, so, Disney poured hundreds of millions of dollars to try and put together a stable of comedy writers and I was the nerd that they hired to use those comedy writers. That was really a lucky and fun first job in the business for me.
Q: Are there any common features in successful comedy creators?
DAVID
You can use the word "nerd" again. No, just joking. I think the reality is, with the ones that I've been lucky enough to observe doing their best work, are just consumed by the love of the craft. There are people who live and breathe comedy writing and performing. They can't get enough; it's in their DNA from a very early age. There are probably psychological issues that play into that, but above all, it's just something they are willing to devote endless hours, great physical and emotional cost to achieving. So, that's what sets apart the great ones. It's that level of commitment. And their certain, innate gift. There are certain people who have some kind of insight into the human condition and are willing to be ruthlessly honest about it. People are willing to look, unflinchingly, at the weirder aspects of life.
Another aspect that successful comedy writers have, is the genuine passion for it. That kind of boundless enthusiasm for a joke well told, or a moment that is funny. You can still get super excited about that into middle age and beyond.
Q: How many spec scripts have you read in your long career in TV?
DAVID
Oh, hundreds. I mean, I love reading spec scripts. One thing I would say to students is, just know that there are people like me who pick up your scripts, desperately hoping for greatness. That is the most exciting thing that can happen for someone like me. Sadly, it's only happened under a dozen times in my thirty years, or so.
Q: Can you give an example of a script that got you excited?
DAVID
Well...I'm thinking back to a time before I was an executive. When I was a reporter, I became friends with a writer named Dennis Klein. He was working on a new show, at the time called The Larry Sanders Show. Dennis sent me an early draft of a pilot script. I read the script, and the characters were so alive on the page...It was so vivid, so dynamic. I don't think I've read many scripts that had that level of nuance.
Another example is writer, Charlie Kaufman. The first script I read by Charlie was called Rambling Pants. It was a musical western that was completely surreal. And, off of that, I threw down a very large amount of money from Disney to sign Charlie to an exclusive development deal, in the early 90s. So, we worked together for about two years and he wrote one brilliant, surreal, almost dada-type pilot, one after another, none, of which, sold.
We would occasionally, go into networks to pitch stuff, which he was absolutely horrible, at. Pitching was the thing he hated most. If you ever saw his film Adaptation, he was like the main character. The only thing that we ever sold was a project that had the same title that Fox pitched back to us, and that title was ....Astro-Nuts. But, of course, despite the same title, Charlie's version turned out to be so insane, it never got made. During that time, Charlie wrote Being John Malkovich on spec. I remember, he gave me an early draft of that, and I was thinking, "This will never get made. It's the most un-bankable thing I've ever read. It's brilliant. But..." - Well, the rest is history.
Do you think a work ethic is important to screenwriting?
DAVID
Um, I don't think it's that...I think it's about knowing what you're trying to say. There are so many writers who are extremely smart in their craft; they'd have a funny joke and a good scene, but you kind of miss what the ultimate emotional take away from this piece. What is this person tapping into, that's relevant to my experiences, what's deeply personal that's being expressed either directly or metaphorically. There was this series called People of Earth, which was written by a young writer at the time, David Jenkins, and it was about a group therapy organisation for people who had alien encounters. That could easily have been a high concept, sci-fi parody. But what Jenkins tapped into, that just felt so true, was a sense of loneliness, yearning - something that we all have; to find something that can lift our lives out of the ordinary and gives it meaning. That, to me, is the difference between clever writing, and writing that connects on a visceral level.
Do you think writing a screenplay is the only way to ensure something gets made?
DAVID
No. I mean, one of the good things to do is make a version of it. Be it a film, or in some successful cases, a play. That way, it can be seen by an executive and turn into a film or series.
Q: Are there people in your department who scour the Internet, or go to various comedy clubs, looking for the "next big thing"?
DAVID
Well, one of the great things about the Internet, is that we're all filmmakers, but we're all talent scouts, now. But, then, sometimes, things come to me, though less formal channels .
Q: So, you can get a good idea, and get it made into a form, and that short-cuts its way towards a possible major project of a series or film.
DAVID
The reality is that, executives have very little imagination. So, if you can show us something that is tangible, it's likely to blow our minds. A great script is an extraordinary accomplishment, but you're always kind of at the mercy of reading skills of the executive. But if you send a film clip that is genuinely funny, has a style of its own - it doesn't have to be polished - it's just an incredibly powerful tool.
Q: Is there a list of things you look for in a script?
DAVID
I tend to be more ephemeral about it, to be honest. I remember, when I was working at Disney, Michael Eisner (CEO of Disney at the time), once said that reading a great script is almost like a physical experience. Something molecular happens. You can sense something and you may not always be conscious, exactly, of what it is.When you read something that feels real, that's when the "spell" starts being present and it sucks you in. I don't know, I mean, I certainly appreciate people who try to systemise it, because it can be taught, but some of it is, I do think, is also just innate, you know. Some people have a natural connection to their writing and language.
Q: Coming from an executive's view, can you tell what has changed in the industry, today?
DAVID
It is a revolution. If you compare the business that I started in, to the one we find ourselves in, today - it's tremendously exciting, creatively, and the number of opportunities has grown exponentially...there's also something that's lost. When I started, as viewers, we were all seeking out that collective experience at a particular point of time, when watching an episode of a series. We all "laughed together" at the same time when we watched Seinfeld or Roseanne and when we spoke about it, we knew of the experience. 30 or 50 million viewers were watching one particular episode at one particular time, and that was the "pot of gold' executives were chasing. And now, that is no longer possible, and it's not even a goal, anymore. Everyone watches anything at their time of choice. In its place, you have a diaspora of more focussed, more adventurous, not necessarily better, but in some cases, beautiful and brilliant, and others, so niche, that barely able to connect with the public, - so, that type of fragmentation provides a better opportunity to craft your work, to speak to a group of people that it's going to mean something to. But, it also means you'll never have that shared cultural experience that the past had. The trend is, now, that it's a given mistake for writers to reach out to the biggest possible audience. You have a chance to say what you want to say, and what you think is going to be a great story. You still will reach a tremendous number of people and reach emotional impact, but the chips just fall differently, now.
Executives won't require writers to go through the same old mill, today. That's why writers are lucky. You get to steer away from the generally accepted view and show your own voice.
Q: Any advice to writers?
DAVID
I think it's all about making stuff. Keep on writing, and if you have any kind of way of performing it, - that does not necessarily mean you be an actor, it's just that you communicate something authentic on film - that's just a tremendous calling card.
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